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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 17 post(s) |
Carmen Electra
Drunk Chaos
318
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Posted - 2014.04.07 22:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
I second the apparent consensus in this thread that Cynabal nerf is unnecessary. (See comments re: Vagabond, etc.) It's not OP like it once was.
Also, go easy (if anything) on the Machariel when you post its "re-balance". The TE nerf was more than enough on it. |
Carmen Electra
Drunk Chaos
320
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Posted - 2014.04.08 17:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Internally we are a bit divided even though we all agree it's one of the game's most powerful bonuses. I want to try and leave it because unique points of power like this one, as long as they aren't oppressive, are more interesting than moving everything towards a middle ground.
I agree, I haven't made much use of serpentis web bonuses, but all the butthurt in this thread makes me want to go give it a try now. If ship features (in this case, web bonus) can't stand out in meaningful ways, then why bother with this balancing work in the first place? "Moving everything towards a middle ground" as you put it is what most games do, and reduces true variety to a mere illusion of variety.
Also, I'm a little unclear on where the Cynabal stands now. Giving it a warp speed bonus feels a big gimmicky. Gimmicky is fine as long as this token bonus isn't being used to justify a nerf elsewhere. If you're doing fleet warps, it'll be a moot point point 90% of the time. I can't say that warp speed comes up too often in our PvP postmortems. 
The cynabal really doesn't need to be nerfed, at least no one here seems to think so. Is the idea is to just move it out of the spotlight a bit to give other ships a larger chunk of the mindshare? |
Carmen Electra
Drunk Chaos
320
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Posted - 2014.04.08 18:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
Koizumi Atsuchi wrote:Longdrinks wrote:Carmen Electra wrote:Also, I'm a little unclear on where the Cynabal stands now. Giving it a warp speed bonus feels a big gimmicky. Gimmicky is fine as long as this token bonus isn't being used to justify a nerf elsewhere. If you're doing fleet warps, it'll be a moot point point 90% of the time. I can't say that warp speed comes up too often in our PvP postmortems. That creates a oppertunity for more skilled players who can warp individually without handholding from a fc to excel. Sounds good to me. Whats the point giving a cruiser higher warp speed and nerfing its fitting capabilities. So it becomes a big interceptor. What you gonna use it for, to tackle carriers equiping small guns to fight off drones? Ridiculous. Whats good of your warping speed when your fighting abilities are highly crippled?
Pretty much this. First off, warping separately from your FC is not really an indicator of anything besides lack of coordination unless you're tackle, ecm, links, or logi. The recent warp speed changes were sensible changes. There's something intuitive about an interceptor getting from A to B faster than a battleship. However, that's more for travel than PvP.
CCP Rise, do you rig any of your PvP cruisers with warp speed rigs? If the answer is no, then perhaps you can understand why I'd feel it's silly to nerf an already outclassed ship to justify a warp speed bump that won't amount to much, if anything, at the end of the day.
Make it 20 AU/s like the Leopard, then we would have something interesting on our hands. A 50% warp speed bump however would not really warrant special Cynabal squads or anything else where people would go out of their way to exploit a ship's role. (This is the whole point of this, right?)
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Carmen Electra
Drunk Chaos
323
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Posted - 2014.04.08 19:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:Those bonuses are still superior than that which is on all the other respective ships as should be the case. As to whether they are too underpowered or not, I'd have to test them on Singularity first. My point was that the concept is good, and warp speed for a quick roaming pvp gang is a massive buff.
I think you're missing my point, or perhaps I'm not being very clear. Disclaimer, I lost a shiny pod once because an inty was able to beat me warping to a celestial. That said, I believe that example is an edge case. Warp speed has zero effect on the outcome of the vast majority of PvP engagements.
We're talking about trading bread-and-butter ship attributes that affect fitting and on-grid performance for a warp speed bonus. As someone who spends a lot of time twiddling my thumbs waiting for opposing fleets to form up (or whatever), this buff is totally bogus.
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Carmen Electra
Drunk Chaos
323
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Posted - 2014.04.08 22:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
Callidus Marus wrote:Vigilants were never OP or an I win button.
Agreed. Seen lots of Ishtars and Deimoses. It's pretty rare to see Vigilants flying around. If they were broken, don't you think we'd see more people exploiting their brokenness?
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Carmen Electra
Drunk Chaos
323
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Posted - 2014.04.08 22:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Naomi Anthar wrote:Yeah i'm butthurt about 90% webs.
So hop in a ship with 90% web yourself. That is literally the best way to get it nerfed (assuming that's what you want). If it's really that broken, players (grrr goons) will be exploiting it to death.
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Carmen Electra
Drunk Chaos
325
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Posted - 2014.04.09 15:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:TinkerHell wrote:
Can the Adrestia also get this? Currently its point range bonus means it can point further than it can lock. It is slightly annoying.
nerfing links would also fix your problem
Teamwork OP. |
Carmen Electra
Drunk Chaos
325
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Posted - 2014.04.09 21:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
KatanTharkay wrote:Cynabal (and the rest of the angel line): why not give them a bonus to point range (gallente) and falloff (minmatar) and make them the ultimate kiter faction?
Because that would have a tangible effect on the game, which is exactly what the warp speed bonus is trying to avoid.
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Carmen Electra
Drunk Chaos
325
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Posted - 2014.04.09 21:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
KatanTharkay wrote:Carmen Electra wrote:KatanTharkay wrote:Cynabal (and the rest of the angel line): why not give them a bonus to point range (gallente) and falloff (minmatar) and make them the ultimate kiter faction? Because that would have a tangible effect on the game, which is exactly what the warp speed bonus is trying to avoid. Hahahahahha, I like your sarcasm man! :)
My remark was indeed sarcastic, but I think it's actually pretty accurate as to what's happening here.
I would love to see a point bonus on the Cynabal TBH. |
Carmen Electra
Drunk Chaos
326
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Posted - 2014.04.09 21:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:So you don't see the advantage to a roaming party to have a fast cruiser or two that is very survivable be able to warp ahead of their prey and catch them on the other side of the gate? It would easily be able to hold most ships for the few seconds it would take for the rest of the group to get there.
This is one of those things that sounds great on paper but will not be so great in practice. We're talking about edge cases. Do you put warp speed rigs on your pvp cruiser?
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Carmen Electra
Drunk Chaos
326
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Posted - 2014.04.09 21:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:So pointing out that according to your own reasoning the bonus being proposed is useless is a straw man argument? So sticking to the topic and addressing the weaknesses of the bonus directly is a misdirection of the argument over that very same bonus?
The words are English, but beyond that, I don't even...
Harvey James wrote:they would have too increase its falloff and damage bonus too make a 30-35km worth it
I get what you're saying from a solo PvP standpoint, but in a fleet setting, it'd be useful with falloff and damage as-is. |
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